January 11, 2016 - Sean Penn's El Chapo Interview

  • 01/11/2016

Dennis Rodman (Jordan Carlos) helms a morning show, and Larry discusses Sean Penn's article about Mexican drug lord El Chapo with Tavi Gevinson, Mike Yard and Grace Parra.

AUDIENCE (chanting):Larry! Larry! Larry!

Thank you very much.Oh, you're too kind.

-(chanting continues)-Thank you so much. Thank you.

It's Monday.Welcome to The Nightly Show.

Thank you.Great show tonight, man.

The founder of Rookie magazine,Teva Gevinson, is here tonight.

(cheers and applause)

Really very excited about that.

All right, guys, so big news

that just sneakedacross the border from Mexico.


Kidding, kidding.The news is here legally.

We have him.

Infamous Mexicandrug cartel leader

Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzmanhas been captured.

Got him! Yeah!

Where's El Chapo? Yes, got him.

This is great news, you guys.

Wait. It's not going to affectthe price of drugs, will it?

-(laughter)-Just kidding. Kidding.

All right, so how did it happen?

WOMAN: U.S. officials confirmedthat Joaquin Guzman's meeting

with actor Sean Penn in Octoberhelped lead to his arrest.

Penn describedtheir seven-hour meeting

for a Rolling Stone article thatwas released over the weekend.


Sean Pennand El Chapo had a sit-down?

Why would you cozy upto a monster like that?

Seriously, El Chapo,it's Sean Penn!


-(applause)-Right? Ooh.

And you spent seven hourswith him?

Did you turn yourself in,El Chapo?

Anyhow, while manyare criticizing Sean Penn

for meeting with El Chapo,the fact is

Penn's article helpedbring the drug kingpin down,

so good for him.And you know...

-(cheers and applause)-Yeah, kind of a good thing.

I don't know how much he's clapping about that right now.

But we're living in the eraof citizen journalists,

so, you know,

let's just appreciate Penn'sjournalistic skills, all right?

So, here's an excerptfrom the article's beginning.


Jesus Christ,

you went to write an article,

and you forgot the actualinstruments of writing?


I mean, how can you forgetto bring a pen?

-Your last name's Penn!-(laughter)

-How did that happen! Ugh!-(applause and cheering)


Okay, but surelyhe brought a computer.

"Do they still make laptops?"

In the time it tookfor you to type this question,

you could have asked,like, anyone nearby

and gotten an answer.

This is literallythe exact opposite

of investigative journalism.


-Right?-(applause and cheering)


Suddenly, his performancein I Am Sam

seems a little less impressive.

(laughter and groaning)

What? What? Too close? What?

(laughing):What? Oh, my God.

Okay, okay,you don't have pen and paper,

you don't knowlaptops still exist.

All right, jungle journalist,

give us the story that you hadto rely on your memory for.


Hmm, hmm, hmm.

See, guys, this is actuallyclassic journalism.

You know what?

It reminds me of that timeduring the Vietnam war

when Walter Cronkite spentthe entire newscast going off

on a tangent about his scrotum.

(as Cronkite): "And that'sthe way it was down there."

(laughter and applause)

Some of you aren't old enough.


All right, so maybehe's just warming up.

Maybe the serious journalismis still on its way.


Rolling Stone has editors,right?

(laughter, applause)

"Minor traveler's flatulence"?

Like if he writes "fart,"at this point,

I'm going to thinkhe's a bad journalist, right?

Oh, my God!He said "fart!"

To which Penn then explainsthat El Chapo

"pretends not to notice."

What does Penn thinkis going to happen?

(with accent):"The rules of farting

"and dealing drugs are the same,my friend.

Whoever smelt it, dealt it!"

-(laughter and applause)It's true.


-Okay. All right.-(applause and cheering)

Very... very intriguing.

Okay, writing about your fartsisn't traditional journalism,

but come on, it's not likeSean Penn made a mockery

of the very tenetsjournalism is built on, right?

Sean Penn is sort of posingas a journalist here.

Sean Penn admits it-- sent thisinterview, sent the entire piece

to El Chapo for his approvalbefore Rolling Stone printed it,

so it was vetted by the subjectof the piece.

That's not journalism.

-(laughing): Oh.-(laughter)

Dear God, you know it's bad

when Fox & Friends...

is questioningyour journalistic credibility.

(cheers and applause)

Fox & Friends!

Ugh! All right, so how didthis meeting even come about

in the first place?

He wanted a movie madeabout himself.

He was reaching outto producers,

he was reaching out to actors

to come downto his hidden jungle refuge

in order to maybe be in a movieabout his life.

There it is, kids.It's official.

The one thing more poisonousthan drugs? Hollywood.

-(laughter)-It's true.

A drug kingpin is captured

because he wants to beimmortalized on the big screen.

You know, after a certain point,

the fun of making billionsof dollars off skinning,

beheading and hangingyour victims off bridges

loses its luster,and you get to wondering,

"What's my legacy,and is it on iTunes?"


This is how intoxicatingnarcissism is.

It even trumps evil.

And my use of the word "trumps"there is not accidental.

(cheers and applause)

It's not an accident.

Okay. All right, becausethis issue is so important,

we sent our own Grace Parra toget the reaction on the ground.

Grace, are you there?

-Hi. Yes. Hi, Larry.-WILMORE: Oh, hey, Grace.

-(cheers and applause)-How are you? Hi. Whoa.

♪ Nightly! Nightly!

Oh, my gosh.

Uh, now, Grace,now, there seem to be a lot

of unanswered questionsin this story.

Oh, lots of unansweredquestions, Larry.

Like, "Who is El Chapo dating?"

♪ Nightly! Nightly!

Uh, uh, hold ona second, Grace.

I know we normally send you outon our entertainment reporting.

-Yeah.-But, yeah, yeah,

but I want to get some serious,uh, serious reporting here

on the whole El Chapo situation.

-Loud and clear, Larry,loud and clear. -Okay, good.

Seriously, will we seeEl Chapo at the movies?

Or perhapsas a Netflix original?

♪ Nightly! Nightly!


Stop that, please.

Now, can you tell meanything about El Chapo

and Sean Penn's relationship?

Like, how did this meetingeven come about?

Well, Larry,Penn-Chapo has been rumored

to have a bromancefor quite some time.

-Grace, Grace...-Mm?

-Penn-Chapo?-Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah.

See, you're slippinginto entertainment talk again.

-I'm sorry, Larry. Okay, um,-Okay, thank you.

the detailsabout their interaction

-have not been made clear yet.-Oh, okay. Okay.

-But I'll tell youwhat is clear, Larry. -Uh-huh?

The fashion world is buzzing

about El Chapo'sblue paisley silk shirts!

-Watch out, Fashion Week,here comes cartel chic! -No...

♪ Nightly! Nightly!

(laughter, whooping, applause)

Stop that jingle, please.

Grace, I don't careabout his shirts.

Just tell me, will America playa role in sentencing El Chapo?

A better question is,who will play the role

of the hot Latina actress

who put this secret Hollywoodjungle-jam into action?

Oh, yeah! Nightly! Nightly!has an exclusive sneak peek

of one up-and-comingactress's audition.

-Let's take a look.-No, let's not take a...


Hi, I'm Grace Parra, forthe role of Kate del Castillo.

But, El Chapo...

don't you think it's timeto start trafficking...

with love?


♪ Nightly! Nightly!

(whooping, applause)

No, no! No, no!

Grace,this is not what I wanted.

A serious drug kingpingets apprehended in Mexico

after meetingwith a Hollywood star?

I mean, this could havean impact all around the globe!

I'll tell you what had an impactall around the Globes--

the dirty look Leonardo DiCapriogave Lady Gaga last night.

It was the "huh?"heard round the world.

♪ Nightly! Nightly!

Okay, she can't stop herself.

Grace Parra, everyone!

Uh, we'll be right back.

-Grace... I just...-(cheers and applause)

Welcome back to the show.

Now, many of you don't knowthat The Nightly Show

is starting a Sunday morningnews magazine show

called The Nightly Morning Show on Sunday.


And since Sean Penn dida very brave thing

getting the meetingwith El Chapo,

we thoughthe should be our first guest.

And we're very excitedabout the host of our show.

He's our newest contributor,and he'll be doing

all of our interviewswith foreign dignitaries.

It's North Korea expertDennis Rodman.

(laughter, whooping, applause)

Now, let me just say, yes...

now, you'll seethe entire thing on Sunday,

but let's just takea sneak preview right now.

My first guest is an actor,

A-A-Academy Award...

okay, good guy...

Seanuel Penn.

Seanuel... Sean Penn.

Now, I take my role...

as North Korean diplomatracis...

okay... diplomacyart form, right?

Lots of moving parts,

like a tire...

You can't just show up,swing your dick around...

with El Chapo.

What I mean is,what did he smell like?

How did you find him?

They invited me.

So was a evite?


-Papyrus?-No, it was... no, it was...

Cate Piffery?

I also, like, I can't...

-so... you meet Chapo.-Well, yeah, I met him.

-You open the door?-Mm-hmm.

Well, he opened the door--it was his house.

-He opened the door.It was his house. -Yeah. Right.

-You go in the house.-I did.

He say... "You thirsty?"

Is he dat guy?

How did you...

Did you say, uh...

(stammering in Spanish)

I don't understandany of the noises

-that just cameout of your mouth. -Ah.


I got to ask youa serious question, okay?

Can you get meSalina Gomez' DNA?

Can you do that?

Because I want to do, like...

Jurassic World, get her DNA,

put it with a dinosaur...(screeches, roars)

Because who would not payto have sex with that dinosaur?


Here's a question.Is there a sequel?

Is there a sequelto El Chapo going to prison?

Coming this fall on ABC.

Well, first of all,I don't do TV.

-Oh, I know. -I don't know whyI even agreed to do this.

(crying):I'm sorry.

I mean,I knew you didn't do TV.


I wouldn't get that upsetabout it.

It's all right.

-That's not right!-Well, I mean, it seems like

of all the things you said,that's not really even...

It's not all right!

Let's say I could get youSalina Gomez's DNA.

-Huh? -Where doesthe dinosaur DNA come from?

(laughing loudly)

Smart guy!Can you get both?


This guy. Steve Jobs.

How we do this?

How we make it like this?

-That has nothing to dowith Steve Jobs. -Exactly.

Where does Chapo keepthe cocaine?

So, a couple more questions.

Wait, you've asked questions?

Let me tell you something,I am very proud of this.

What I've done here.

-This is a...-Let me just say,

from journalist to journalist,you're doing a very good job.

Thank you.

(cheers and applause)

Remember, Sunday morning,check your local listings.

We'll be right back.

(cheers and applause)

Welcome back.I'm here with my panel.

First up, Nightly Show contributor Mike Yard.

(cheers and applause)

And she's back, Nightly Show contributor Grace Parra.

(cheers and applause)

And she's one ofthe most influential teenagers

in America, she's alsothe founder and editor-in-chief

of Rookie magazine,Tavi Gevinson.

(cheers and applause)

And for everyone at home,join our conversation right now

on twitter @nightlyshow usingthe hashtag tonightly.

Okay, so everyone's talkingabout this Sean Penn interview

with El Chapo.It's so amazing.

What's the bigger story here,Sean Penn doing this

-or El Chapo?-I think the bigger story

is the fact that Sean Pennhad an interview

with the world'smost notorious...

-the most notoriousdrug lord alive, -Yeah.

and made it the most boring(bleep) read...


Did you even get throughthe whole article?

I don't know if I'm gonna getfired, but I didn't finish it.

-That (bleep) was so...-No, you're not gonna get fired.

-It's really painful.-It was painful!

I would have hadto snort cocaine

to get through thatdamn article! My goodness!

It's, like, very revealingas a profile of Sean Penn.

-Yeah. -Yes, exactly.-Like, we learn a lot

about him, his, um, passing gas?

Like, it was very puzzling.

It's this odd psychologicalprofile is what it's like.

-Yeah. -It's like he just didthis, "Hey, guys,

look at my brain."-Yeah. Made it all about his...

Like, his, like, attempt at aKerouac piece or something.

Just go a sad caféand have a ham sandwich

-and write in your moleskin. Idon't want to hear it. -I know.

But I-I can'timagine a journalist

talking about something as-asinteresting as this and saying,

"I went to the tree,dick in hand".

-That's what I'm saying.-It's like,

why is that detail in there?

Why is half the (bleep)in there?

You're talking about El Chapo.

Why are we hearing about you?

We know you.We barely like you, Sean.

-Now that-that Haiti thing...-Yeah. -Yeah.

-You're still riding the Haitifumes. -He's got you holding on

-because of that. -He should'vestopped the activism

at Milk. That was great.

Did great work for-for... Yes,but I-I... it's... I'm over it.

I mean, maybe he's doing it

'cause he wants to win Madonnaback. I don't know.

I think... I think,probably, when he star...

when he had the idea,he was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna

"do this, I'm gonnawrite this exposé,

-show the world El Chapo."-Right.

And then it took himso long to get there,

he had a lot of timeto think about himself.


It's... it's too much timein the jungle, though, right?

He's... he's like, "I'm way moreinteresting than El Chapo."

It felt likehe was trying to write...

it felt like it was writtenby someone who reads

-a lot of really badscreenplays. -Yes! -Yes.

-Yes! -Yes!-Well, that's probably true.

-There's a part...-Tavi, that's genius.

Okay, well... Thank you.

-That is so it, though. That'sso on point, it is. -Yeah.

No, but he... There's a partwhere he quotes himself

-and it's, like, a paragraphof being like... -I love that.

Like, he picks up a phoneand he's like,

"Are you kidding me--no one down there

speaks frigging English?"And it's like, what are you...

It's, like, so, um...I don't know, I feel like

it's totally okay to go throughthat, artistically,

and have your moment, but not,um, share it with your...

-Yeah.-Yes, yes.

That was-that was bizarre.Also, to me...

I mean, how do we feelabout interviewing

these types of horrible people,just in general?

-I mean... -I mean, I kindof have a problem with that.

-When you act likenothing's going on. -Larry...

It's like, uh, "Okay, Hitler,I just want to talk to you.

"I know you're doing...

No, no, I know that whole 'otherthing's' going on, whatever."

You can't put "holocaust"in quotes. You can't do that.

-You know?-The thing is,

is people interview Trumpevery day, so...


-He's not... -He a horribleperson, though,

-he's a horrible person. -He'snot killing people, though.

-He's not, but, well...-YARD: Oh, we don't know.

He's killing us e-emotionally.

-He's killing our souls, Larry.-Yeah, I hear you.

I think if-if Trumpwas killing people, he probably

would tell the world,

-"I am the best killer ever!"-That's true.

-That's true, that's true.-Yeah, I know, that's true.

It'd probably be a moreinteresting interview, though.

I think Trump shouldinterview El Chapo, actually.

PARRA:Yes, genius, buddy comedy

-waiting to happen. -Oh, thatwould have been a lot more fun.

How many losers have you killed?

Wou-Would you interviewsomeone notorious like that?

Would you ever do that?

Um, I think if that opportunitypresented itself to me,

I would defer to someoneway more qualified,

-especially if I were Sean Penn.-Uh-huh.


-So much wisdom already. -YARD:That'd have been a good call.

Thank you. I mean,I get that he had the access.

-Mm-hmm. -But the fact thathe's so disconnected from it--

he just talks about the personaand he's just,

like, fascinated by evil.It's, like, written by someone

for whom the situationhas no real-life implications

-or consequences.-Yeah. -Exactly.

Yeah, what is this fascinationwith-with evil?

'Cause there is a lot of it.Like, um,

I mean, hip-hop cultureloves Scarface.

They-they love Scarface.

-YARD: Have they seen the movie,though? -Whitey-Whitey Bulger

-is like a... is like a folkhero to some people in Boston.

I mean, Gotti was even lionized,I mean, he was, uh, you know...

I think people just love,uh, to hear the stories

of people who just don't care.

Like, we can't live like that,so we want to...

-You know, it's fascinating.It's a fas... -Yes.

It's like, you know, people lovethat, you know, the crazy dude.

Like, w... like, it's likewhen I was growing up,

people would run to go seethe dude that got out of jail.

-They'd be like, "Yo, Maxjust got out of jail." -Really?

Yeah, people would be like,"Yo, I got to go see him.

I got to see if he got big."If, like...

You know what I mean?

-Well... -They would run,but you tell that same person,

you know, Derek just got out ofcollege-- "Man, (bleep) Derek."

Right. Exactly.

"He think he'sbetter than everybody."

You know what I mean?

-WILMORE: Poor Derek!-Yeah. -I think... Poor Derek.

-We love that, though.-WILMORE: So horrible.

No wonder Derek ended upin jail. It makes sense now,

-you know? I was wonderingwhere he was. -I feel like

the fascination comes, kind ofsimilarly, from a place of, uh,

seeing people do things thatwe're scared of. Like, uh,

you know, that's why we watchporn. You see people...

I'm-I'm scared of killing a guyand I'm scared

of getting double-fisted,so I watch other people see it.

-Think that's universal.A lot of people... -Thank you.

-...probably scared of that.-Thank you.

-I'm still trying to put thattogether. -Sounds pretty...

-That sounds... -I'm, I... We-wewatch it 'cause we're scared.

We don't want to do itourselves.

No, they're just fascinatingpeople, though, man. Come on,

you-you don't want to knowthe story of the dude

that became the biggestcocaine smuggler ever?

I mean, that'sfascinating to me,

unless Sean Penn is writing it.

-You know what I'm saying?-PARRA: That's the one caveat.

We'll be right back.

-♪ -(applause)

ANNOUNCER: Grab some free tickets

to attend an upcoming taping of The Nightly Show.

Thanks to my panelistsMike Yard, Grace Parra

and Tavi Gevinson.We're almost out of time,

but bef... uh, before we go,I'm gonna keep it 100, okay?

Uh, tonight's questionis from James Irvin.

He asks, "If youwent to jail..." Great.

"...who would you ratherbe put in a cell with--

Charles Manson or Bill Cosby?#KeepIt100"

This is easy. Charles Manson.Come on, man.

How interesting would that be?

Plus, I would never feel safeabout drinking anything

if it was Bill Cosby.

That's keeping it 100, right?

-All right, all right.