My guest tonight isthe former governor of Vermont
and the former Chairman of theDemocratic National Committee.
Please welcome Howard Dean!
-♪ -(cheering, applause)
Welcome to the show.
-Nice to be on the show.-Nice to see you again.
The last time I saw you,we were having a fake debate.
-In New Hampshire.-Yeah. A debate that you won.
-(laughter) -It was. He won...It was a fake debate,
-but you still won the debate.-Well, thank you.
-Congratulations. -I appreciatethat. I'll bet you tell that
to all the otherfour contestants, too.
I tell it to all of themwhen I see them.
-I go, "You actually wonthat debate. -Yeah. Yeah.
-You're my favorite." Uh...-(laughter)
You, uh, are a man who knowsBernie Sanders very well.
-It's true. -You've bothworked in the same state
for a very long time,you have both been involved
in a presidential race--
if you were to put yourselfin Bernie Sanders' shoes,
what do you think is goingthrough his mind right now?
Actually, it's very toughfor him right now,
because... I went through this,and, uh...
you know, he hadn't done welland he probably knows
in his heart that he'snot gonna get enough delegates,
and it's tough,'cause he's had all these people
that are believing himin all this time.
It's the hardest thingabout losing,
is not your own loss,
it's the peoplewho believed in you's loss.
But, now, when we talkabout the delegates,
this has become a realcontentious issue on the news--
people talkingabout the delegates and the...
and then super delegates and...
You... you are a super delegate.
-I'm a super delegate...-What powers do you possess?
Uh, not that many.
Um, the real reason thatsuper delegates were invented
was not to cook the books,it was because...
when we didn't have them,none of the officeholders
would come to the convention.
'Cause they... if you don't...
-on the Democratic side,you have to run a campaign -Yes.
to get to the convention, andthere was no elected official
who wanted to runagainst their own activists--
-Right.-they just wouldn't show up.
So, in order to get themto show up... to show up,
we told 'em they could come,essentially, without running.
There has never in the historyof the Democratic party,
since we've had superdelegates,ever been a race
which was decidedby superdelegates,
and I'm pretty surethe superdelegates are gonna
vote for whoever hasthe most pledged delegates.
Okay, so, there are many people,including people
in the Sanders camp, who saythey're still gonna fight,
they're gonnakeep on fighting to the end.
Let's say that end does come.
Bernie Sandersdrops out of the race.
You were in an interestingsituation in 2004,
where you weredropping out of the race.
You had a following notdissimilar to Bernie Sanders,
in that you were consideredthe grassroots man,
you were considered the...the insurgent at the time.
You had a tough timetelling your supporters
to vote foryour opponent at the...
Because it was-it wassuch a passionate campaign.
I would argue thatBernie Sanders' fans
-are even more passionateabout... -Right.
Do you really think he can getthem to now vote for Hillary?
Yes, he can, but he's got togive 'em some time.
When I dropped outI, um, I felt terrible,
because all my supporters,of course, had slept on floors
and given me all theirpizza money for a year, and...
W-Why... why would youmake them do that? Why...
I didn't!They just kept...
You make it sound like you werea bully-- sleep on the floor
and give me your pizza money.
Well, we didn't haveany money when we started.
But, yeah, I get you.They gave you
-their basic money, yes. -So...Yeah, I mean they do all this
work for you and it's really...it's painful.
I was also, of course, furiouswith the Democratic party
'cause I didn't winand I thought I should have.
-Yeah. -Um, and so,uh, w... I waited for a month,
uh, and then had the bigpeace meeting with John Kerry,
and then asked my supportersto support him.
It-It's a lot easier...It's much harder
for the person, uh...It's much easier for the person
who loses the race to go endorsethe other person,
'cause if you're in politics...I mean, Bernie actually
said this in the debate--he turned to Hillary and said,
"Let's face it: both...either one of us
is much better thanwhat's on the other side."
-Yeah, that's true.-And-and you have to keep that
in mind and it's hard to dowhen you have to make
the-the big decision.
And that's what he's facing now.It's very hard for him.
Let's talkabout what Bernie supporters
would potentially be facingon their side then.
Many people on Bernie's sideare saying
Hillary's too establishment.
Hillary can't addressthe needs of the voters.
Hillary won't even releaseher Goldman Sachs speeches.
You are a Hillary supporter.
Uh, and you faceda lot of criticism
-because you hail from Vermont.-Right.
And Bernie Sanders won by 86%,
but you're still supportingHillary.
-Why, in the face of allof that? -Because, first of all,
I've known Hillary for 25 years.I like her a lot.
And I think she's fact-based.And she's going to appoint
a great group of peopleto the Supreme Court,
and that makesa big, big difference
in this future of this country.
Second of all, I endorsed...I endorsed Hillary
long before Bernieeven got in the race,
-and I'm not somebodywho changes my, uh, tone. -Yeah.
Third of all,I'm a superdelegate,
not by virtue of the factthat I come from Vermont
but because I was the chairmanof the national party.
So I think there's a f...And fourth of all,
-one of my closest... one ofmy closest friends -(laughter)
is Raúl Grijalva,who is in exactly my position.
He's from Arizona.Hillary won Arizona.
He's supporting Bernie Sanders.So, you know,
unless Ralph... unless Raúland I should switch positions,
why shouldn't we be able to vote
for who we thinkis the right person?
No, it-it makes sense,voting for the person
-that you feelis the right person. -Right.
Uh, which is what a lot ofAmericans are doing right now.
And on the Republican side,the right person,
in their eyes, is Donald Trump.
-Uh, I was most fascinated...-(laughter)
I was most fascinatedby your story,
because-- many people know thisbut some may not--
one of the reasonspeople attributed
to you facing your declinein the race was because
you had a momentduring the campaign.
-The scream speech.-The scream speech. Right?
-And it... -No, that wasin Nevada. And Michigan.
And South Carolina!
(cheering and applause)
And that... and that moment...
that moment many peopleconsidered the turning point
of that... And for those of youwho haven't seen it,
this-this is all it was.This is what happened,
-and this is what changed therace for Howard Dean. -Uh-oh.
We're going to South Carolinaand Oklahoma and Arizona
and North Dakota and New Mexico!
And we're going to Californiaand Texas and New York.
And we're going to South Dakotaand Oregon
and Washington and Michigan!
And then we're goingto Washington D.C.
to take back the White House!
-(applause and cheering)-Yes. Yes.
I mean... that was enoughfor people...?
You-you had to go on TV,and your wife had to say
-that you are not a violent man,and you had to... -(laughter)
That was enough.In 2004, that was enough
to throw a campaignoff its track... off its course.
Do you watch this race nowand go, "Why?!"
I was clearlyin the wrong party.
Donald Trump can sayunspeakable things
about women and Hispanics, and
he's still leading the packin the Republican party,
which says something aboutthe Republican party, of course.
-Do you...?-But I clearly...
-(applause and cheering)-That's true. Touché. Touché.
You know what I thinkthe thing is, though?
I'm gonna give you this tipfor next time.
It's the Donald Trump tip.
The mistake you made wascoming out and saying
that you had donea sort of wrongish thing.
Donald Trump rule number one--you never apologize.
Next time you go, "Yeah,"at the next interview,
and they go,"Are you a mad man?,"
-you go, "Yeah!" -(laughter, applause & cheering)
And you're gonna go straightto the top of the polls.
-Here we go.-I promise you that, my friend.
Straight to the top of thepolls. Howard Dean, everybody.
-(applause and cheering)-We'll be right back.