John Kasich - Uniting America in "Two Paths" - Extended Interview

Extended - April 24, 2017 - John Kasich 04/24/2017 Views: 48,190

"Two Paths" author and Ohio Governor John Kasich weighs in on how politics has become polarized and explains why he declined the offer to be President Trump's running mate. (15:59)

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Please welcomeOhio governor John Kasich.

(applause and cheering)

Welcome to the show.

Before we getinto the interview,

there are a lot of peoplewho know you

from the campaign trailand from Ohio.

But I think a lot of peoplewant questions answered,

and especially about this.

(camera shutters clicking,crowd chatter)

MAN:Bon app├ętit.

-(laughter) -John Kasich,were you using the presidency as

-a ruse to get free food?-(laughter)

You know, my wife saidthat if you ever eat again

in front of a camera,you're not sleeping at home.

-(laughter) -And so...and my wife is beautiful,

so I gave up eatingaltogether, but, uh...

-Oh, that's nice. That's nice.-But you know what? It was...

Coming here... Is the foodnot the best in New York?

-I mean, it's just fantastic,you know. -(applause, cheering)

Nicely played.Nicely played.

And, uh, you know,it was a great time.

By the way, you knowI won Manhattan,

so, uh, I'm kind ofthe president of Manhattan.

-(laughter) -I don't really knowhow I did in Trump Tower,

but I think I did pretty well.

I think you did because Melaniais the only person there,

and she probably voted for you,as well, so, yeah.

-(applause) -Um, let's, uh...let's talk about...

Let's talk about you, andlet's get into the presidency.

You are the governor of Ohio.

There's the saying-- "As Ohiogoes, so goes the election."

Your constituents didn't supportTrump in the primaries,

and they did supportDonald Trump in the election.

Looking at whatDonald Trump has done now

five days away from 100 daysin the presidency,

in touch with your peopleon the ground,

how are they reactingto Donald Trump's presidency?

I think people that voted forhim are still hanging in there.

I think very few of the peoplewho voted for him have said,

-you know, they don't like him.-Yeah.

And this is part of the problem.

It's almost like rootingfor a sports team.

You know, you wear your uniform,

and you're alwaysfor your team regardless.

And I think, over time,if the jobs don't come back,

that'll begin to change.

But this is part of the problemwe have in the country.

Everybody's sort ofdividing themselves.

Okay, so, if you're a liberal,you read liberal editorials,

-you watch liberal television.-Right.

You, you know,go to the Huffington Post.

If you're a conservative,

you know,you do conservative television.

You do Rush Limbaughand conservative editorials.

So people are all lockedin these silos.

And we only consumewhat we want.

Frankly,we're all affected by it.

Think about Facebook.

You know, put something up thereI don't like, I unfriend you.

I mean, we're to the point

-where people are not listeningto each other... -But now...

And being able to, you know,hear what you have to say,

show you a little respectand, uh... but...

But now, couldn't some peopleargue, though,

that politicians have playeda big role in that?

I love what you talkabout in the book.

Two paths in America--divided or united.

But many people would argue...

-I remember when I firstwatched debates. -Yeah.

-It seemed like you hate eachother. -Is that what those were?

-Yeah.-Is that what those were? Yeah.

I-I didn't know what...I stood on the end of the stage.

It was like in was like going

to the Olympics in swimming.I was way out here.

You were in lane eight--is that what you were?

And I was watching it.And I was watching this stuff.

And I was like,"You've got to be kidding me."

But it seemed likeeveryone there was opposed.

It seemed like everyone didn'tagree, everyone was hyperbolic.

If he's president it's the end,if she's president it's the end.

Don't you thinkthat there is a large role

that politicians played?

Oh, no, no, no.There's no question.

I mean, the politicians now

are not providing the kindof leadership we'd like to see.

Right now, you know,if you compromise,

if you work with the otherparty, in either party--

this is truefor either of them--

-that somehow you're a sellout.-Yeah.

And I was in Congresswhen we reformed welfare,

when we balanced the budget.

I negotiated with the Clintonpeople, we got the deal done.

We actually balancedthe budget, we paid down debt,

so these peopleweren't locked in

-for the rest of their livesand paying all that. -Right.

But if you don't work together

and have some degreeof bipartisanship,

nothing is sustainable.

But look, it's with everythingwe see today.

I wrote this book, not becauseI want some political platform.

I wrote this bookbecause it's not just politics

that's letting us down.

Try flying United.

-(laughter)-Okay? Um...

(applause and cheering)

-Wow. -No. I mean,think about this.

So, that tells you how badit is for you now.

We've gotten to the pointwhere politicians are like,

-"But what about United?" Yeah?-Yes, but listen.

It's throughout's throughout our culture now.

We have become so self-absorbed,

and we're not willingto put our hearts with others.

And we haveto get this back, Trevor, and...

But would you not argue that ithas gone the other way, though?

Would you not arguethat United is an example

-of what you're talkingabout in the book? -It is.

It's America going,"We are united,

"because we saw what happened,we don't stand with it,

we put pressureon United as people."

-That's a good thing.-I think that that's...

I think one of the thingsthat I like

-is the activism we're seeing.-Yes.

Now, a lot of Republicancongressmen

don't like that activism,but, I mean, the fact is,

when people start to rise up...

You had the science thing,you had the Women's March.

I mean, it's good stuff,and what I liked about...

Look, the problemwith the United thing is,

everybody in this studiohas been on an airplane,

and we are starting to getthe sense that we don't matter.

That something's bigger than us,and we don't matter.

I got news for you.

We matter just as muchas the C.E.O.,

or the presidentof the United States.

It doesn't matter whetheryou're running the company,

-or turning off the lights.-Wow. -(applause and cheering)

-Now... -I like that.We all matter.

-Black lives matter. I likethat. -No. Hey, Trevor...

-Trevor? Trevor?-You heard it here first, folks.

-But before you go on that...-Okay.

I just wanted to stop youin what you said

with the Republicans,'cause in your book...

This is what I truly love,

and you wrote it on the backof the book, as well.

But you talk about,"There is one choice--

"the path that exploits anger,encourages resentment,

turns fear into hatredand divides people."

You cannot deny that that iswhat Donald Trump ran on.

You cannot deny thatDonald Trump continues to fuel

his-his power with that.

When you are lookingat Donald Trump

and you are looking atthe Republican Party as a whole,

isn't there a partof you that goes,

"This is no longer my party"?

Because as John Kasich, youhaven't endorsed Donald Trump.

You didn't votefor Donald Trump.

You were one of the fewRepublicans who hasn't buckled

-and kissed the ring.-I didn't go to the convention

-You didn't. I know.-in my own state.

That was a lot of fun.People really liked me for that.

'Cause you had to leave.That makes it even harder.

Look, I have a right to definewhat it means

-to be a conservativeand a Republican. -Right.

The same way I have a rightto define what it means

to be a man of faith.

I mean, I can do that,I have a right to do that.

And so, look, I think with...with Donald Trump,

he was a populist,I'm a populist;

he was a negative populist,I'm a positive populist.

People are hurting.

People losing their jobs,their kids can't get work,

uh, they're underpaid.

And so that's real-- so youhave two ways of looking at it.

You take somebody like that,and you say,

"Well, it'ssomebody else's fault,

and somebody elseripped you off,"

and you drive that anger,or you can look at them and say,

"This is a terrible thing,but let's work it out,

-let's figure it out."-Right.

We live in a society today

where you want a bumper stickersolution or you take a pill

and everything'sgonna be great, immediate.

We... This-this problemin this country

of growing divisions has beengoing on for decades-- decades--

and we're not gonna pull outof this, Trevor, overnight.

It's going to take us--so let me give you and example.

Why don't we startmentoring kids?

Why don't we,as Republican or Democrat,

start giving our kidsencouragement?

Why don't we fightthe drug battle

and warn people aboutthe dangers of drugs, together?

-Uh-huh.-Why don't we... you know,

why don't we help veteransget jobs when they get home?

Why aren't welooking out for them?

You see, getting together...

-(applause) -Let me...let me finish this thought.

Getting togetherwith common humanity

can allow us to beginto talk to one another again.

-Right. -Because right now,you can't even...

Lady moved her weddingout of America

'cause if she invited her familythere'd have been a fistfight.

See, she had her weddingout of the country.

You know in your own familiesthat there are...

there are fights going on.

And these thingsare not that critical.

What's critical is what'shappening in your family

and what's happening next-door.

And just likethe United passengers

drove the change... change up,we need to drive the change up

to solve problemsin this country

-and recapture our culture.-It's interesting,

because you-you sayin the book...

-(applause)-you say in the book...

that... many people in Americaargue that there is

a lack of leadership,there is a crisis of leadership,

and one of the linesthat struck me in the book

is, you say... you would arguethat there is also a crisis

-of "follow-ship."-Yeah.

-What does that mean?-Well, that means

that if you arein any organization--

and the folks here tonight workin different places--

you look at your leaderand you say,

is the leader taking usto the right place?

And if the vision is right,we follow.

And then leaders emergeamong the followers.

If all of a sudden the leader'staking us off a cliff,

you can't keep followingthe leader.

And you have to have disruptersin any organization

that can tell the big cheese,like, "Trevor,

"that was not a very funny joke.

Stay away from that, okay?"

And as long as they're for you,than you have to accept it.

-Right.-So it's not just...

We need better leaders-- withoutshepherds it doesn't work--

but even with shepherds,you have to have people

that'll... that'll...that'll get behind the leader

and guide that organizationand not just blindly.

Let me ask you a question thatI've always wanted to know.

During the race--during the campaign, in fact--

I think it was Donald Trump Jr.,he gave your office a call,

and he said, "Will John Kasichrun with Donald Trump?

"And in exchange,he will run the government

and the militaryand all structures, basically"--

I mean, I paraphrased this,but, "He will run everything."

And I think your office replied,

"Well, then whatwill the president do?"

And they said, "Well,he'll make America great again."

-(laughter)-I honestly wonder,

looking at what'shappening now...

if you could go back,would you take that deal?

No, no, no, no. I didn't...Look, the reason...

Some people thinkthat I didn't endorse Trump

or go to the convention'cause I was bitter.

No. I had a messagethat meant a lot to me.

People need to live a lifea little bigger than themselves,

that we all haveto help one another.

And people think that if you'rein politics you say things

and it's all transactional--that's baloney.

-The things I say...-See, the food.

The food coming back again.

-There you go.-The food. But carry on.

But, look... look,

what I'm saying to you is, we...

-How can I...? That's too good.That's good, Trevor. -(laughter)

-That's good. Okay?-(applause, cheering)

No, but I-I hearwhat you're saying.

You're saying... you're saying--

and forgive mefor cutting you off there--

-Yeah.-but I hear what you are saying.

That's why I couldn't do it.No, I'm not going back,

and I couldn't do thatand I feel great

and I'm happy--look, everything is good.

Now, I want to sayone other thing,

'cause I watched a little bitof the last segment.

'Cause I do want to talkjust for a second

about... about faith.

And I'll tell you why I say it.

I think sometimespeople in religion

have given religion a bad...a bad, uh, reputation.

Let me tell youwhat it is for me.

Religion is:honor... honor God,

because... and thatgives me humility;

and secondly, love my neighbor,connect me with my community,

put me in somebody else's shoes,learn to help somebody get up,

and live a lifebigger than myself.

-That to me is what religionis about. -Right.

Right, right.

And if you're, you know,and if you're a humanist

and you want to changethe world, I'm all for you.

But, you know, let's not throwout the fact that values matter,

and that we, we will,

we have a responsibilityfor what we have been given.

And that gets back to the issue

of no one's betterthan anybody else.

Because I believe in the eyes ofthe big guy, we're all equal.

And we all have talentsand we need to use it

to change and heal this world.

That's what this bookis all about for me.

That's what comes acrossin the book.

And I agree with youin many points.

I mean, you're right,there are some people

who make religion look bad.

That is what Muslimsare struggling from

all over the world.

When you talk about these issuesin your book,

let's talk a little bit aboutpolicy before I let you go,

-Yeah, sure.-because...

That's one thing about you.

People may not agreewith all of your politics.

There are things where peopledon't agree on everything.

But one thing I rememberconsistently was,

if you asked a Democrator a Republican,

toward the end of the race,

all right, Democrats you can'tget Hillary.

Republicans you can't get Trump,

but everyone can get Kasich.

A lot of peoplewould have said "yes."

And they saidyou balanced budgets,

you went into a surplus,

you increased the jobs in Ohio.

People-- I've been in yourstate-- people love you.

Well, and Trevor, the otherthing we've done is,

I've not tried to leave anybodybehind, the mentally ill,

the drug addicted,the chronically ill...

Everybody has to have a sensein a country

-that they have a chance.-Right.

And that the people who arerunning the place

are aware of them.

And so we've-- you know,

even on policeand community relations,

I have an African Americanliberal Democrat

who is working with a formerhead of the highway patrol.

And we now have standards thatwe have never had before.

There is nothing like itin the country.

Dig into a problem,

don't care about whether you'rea Republican or Democrat,

lift the people and look,

I'm not--I ain't that great a guy.

I just do the best I can,Trevor.

Wake up the next dayand do a little bit better.

But, you know, we're allbasically failed.

-And that's the great thing---(audience exclaiming)

-We are.-(applause)

-Well, I mean...-You're not, Trevor.

-I'm not, I host The Daily Show from Africa. -You're not.

But, uh... No, no, I hearwhat you're saying.

-I know what you're saying.-No. And I saw your demos,

so I know you're doing really,really well, I mean...

No, but, uh, but going to that,you have all of this.

Let's talk about what changesyou would implement.

A lot of people would notrealize that as much

as you are a Republican,you're one of the people

-who lead the expansionof Medicaid -Sure, yeah.

-in your state.-Yes.

You were not for the replacing

and repealing of Obamacarethe way it is.

-You agree that it's-it'sbroken. -We all, we all do...

It needs to be fixedin many ways.

We're not gonna-- we cannotwilly-nilly, just pass some,

some proposal that's gonnacut off coverage

for the mentally illand the drug addicted.

They got to go to the doctorall the time to get better.

And some of them have to gofor a long time.

And we're gonna pass some billout of Washington

that doesn't take into accountthose lives?

That's nonsense.

And I'm gonna speak out if I canand have a voice.

-You also speak out againstgerrymandering. -Well, yes.

This is something I wantedto find out from you.

You think they knowwhat that is? Gerrymandering.

Oh, this is The Daily Show crowd.

-Yeah.-Don't mess with them.

-Don't mess with these people.-(applause)

Don't mess with everyonewatching the show,

everyone here.

So one of the biggest issuesthat America is dealing with now

is that a lot of politiciansare choosing their constituents,

and so they no longer have toserve in the same way

that a public servanthas always had to.

And so, Ohio, you guys aregetting to a place

where you haveto make a decision,

I think it's in November, you'llcorrect me if I'm wrong.

But now you're going to choosebetween having

an independent commission,bipartisan that gerrymanders,

or that really drawsthe district lines,

or the other option is to gowith a two-thirds majority

of politicians who decide this.

Which side are you falling on?

I'm for whatever side is gonnacarve out fairer districts.

I don't care what it is,I don't care who it benefits.

But you, but you, you--I mean, it-it would be...

-I demanded that we have...-Surely, it would seem

that the politicians are notthe people to choose

who should votefor the politicians.

Well, no, I agree with that,Trevor,

but you have to operatewithin the system.

And now the peopleI work with there

are saying you're righton this gerrymandering.

-See? 'Cause here'swhat happens. -Yes.

You carve a Republican district,a Democrat can't win,

you carve a Democratic district,a Republican can't win.

-So what happens,-Yes.

if you're a Republican,you have to fear the right,

if you're a Democrat,you fear the left.

So we become fartherand farther apart.

It is a disaster.

And so there is-- and then ifyou compromise, by the way,

then you're called a traitor.

And, you know, today a lotof people gave up bowling,

and took up watching politics.

They ought to go backto bowling.

We'd have a little bitsmoother situation.

That's a big problem.

The other big problemis for president,

a handful of billionairescan pick a president.

-And that's just dead wrong.-Right.

And it's a Supreme Court ruling,and I'm against it.


I honestly could not recommendto people more

that they read the book.

You are a rare breedof politician

who seems to stickto what he says.

It has been an honorhaving you on the show.

-Thank you for your book.- I enjoyed it.

-I hope to see you again.-Thank you, thank you.

The book, Two Paths, will be available April 25th.

Governor John Kasich, everybody.

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