Please welcome Susan Goldberg.
(cheering and applause)
Thank you so muchand welcome to the show.
Thank you so much,and thanks for having us.
This is an amazing,amazing issue
that National Geographic has just released.
Let's get straight into the why.
I mean,an entire issue dedicated
to gender around the world.
I can understand it being a,you know, an article,
or even an extended pieceof-of an issue,
but why the entire issue?
Everywhere you look these days,
you see gender at the centerof so many conversations.
And not just in our country,
with discussions about bathroomlaws in North Carolina or Texas,
but everywhere in the world.
And it isn't just abouttransgender, it's about gender.
So whether it's about girlsin Sierra Leone
trying to, um, you know,thwart traditional norms
of female genital mutilation,and childhood marriage,
or men in Swedentaking advantage
of really generous policies for,uh, paternity leave
after having a child,
you're seeingso much conversation
around the world about gender.
I think wh-what really struck mewhen reading this issue,
wasn't that it, eh,was about gender,
but it was how the conversationswere had, as you say.
It was all around the world,and most, most interestingly,
it was all about children.
It was how childrensee themselves
on the gender spectrum.
It was talking to kidsin different cultures
all over the world,specifically nine-year-olds.
Very specific age.
Why did you choose that?
So, nine-year-oldsare articulate,
and they're great observers.They're really smart,
for those of us who have beenaround nine-year-old kids.
And they a...and they do tell you the truth.
So we went to, uh,80 different families
in eight countriesall over the world and said,
"What does it mean to be a boyin your culture?
"What does it mean to be a girlin your culture?
"What's the best thingabout being a boy?
"What would you... What would itbe like if you were somebody
of another...of the other gender?"
And they really told uswhat they thought.
And, you know, the answersare funny sometimes.
-They're heartbreakingsometimes. -Yeah.
Uh, to me,one of the big takeaways
was how much girls aroundthe world still use gender
to define limits in their lives.
They say being a girl...Not all girls said this
but a number of them said
being a girlsomehow limits their abilities.
Yes. But you-youdon't even realize it.
When you're readingthrough this article,
one of the-the picturesthat really jumps out--
and I think we have it here--is-is the-the blue and pink,
-you know, showing how boys'and girls' roles -Oh, yeah.
in their lives are defined.
Like, it's-it's almost producedand predetermined.
So, this was a projectundertaken
by a South Korean photographerwho saw that,
you know, her own daughterjust loved pink.
And she got really curious aboutthe idea of, you know, was it...
was it societiesthat were sending girls to pink
and boys to blue, or werethey just doing that naturally.
And so she started goingall over the place,
looking at how it isthat kids end up surrounded
with a sea of pinkif you're a girl
or a sea of blue, uh,if-if you're a boy.
Before I tell you...before I let you go, rather,
um, let's talk about the cover,
because the cover is somethingthat, in its own right,
was somethingthat you found was met
with a lot of, uh, you know,objection.
You have a transgender childon the cover.
-We do. -The first in National Geographic's history.
-As far as we know.-Yeah. You...
That's actually very true.
You met a lot of resistance.
People, you know,who got the cover said, "Why?"
and, "We didn't want this."
What was their reasoning?
Well, I think people were--some people--
were offended that we even wouldhave an issue about this topic.
I have receiveda lot of complaints
from people who saythis is not the kind of topic
that National Geographic oughtto even be discussing.
Um, they just didn't feelit was appropriate.
And, you know, I understandthat a lot of these complaints
are heartfelt, and-and I respectpeople for having that opinion.
Um, but we really did thinkit was important,
because, you know, this is...there is...
there is a huge conversationgoing on,
even if some peopledon't want to acknowledge it.
You know, other people objectedbecause, they said,
-"This is a child.-Yeah.
You've got a childon your cover."
And Avery Jackson,the girl who is on the cover
that went to our subscribers,is nine years old,
and ever sinceshe's been four years old,
she has said, "I am a girl."
And that ishow she's being raised.
That is what her and her family,you know...
they're going forward with that.
She's actually an activistin the transgender community.
And so we felt very comfortableputting her on the cover.
She actually had one ofthe most fascinating phrases,
and that's on the cover here,and that is,
"The best thingabout being a girl
is now I don't have to pretendto be a boy."
Right.And so when she said that,
we thought thatin that one sentence
it really put her at ground zeroof so much
of what people are talking aboutin terms of gender.
Well, I... I could talk to youfor hours on this,
because the pictures,the stories,
and the ideas behind itare really fascinating.
I encourage everyone to go outand get the issue.
-But thank you for making it.-Oh, thank you.
-Thank you so much.-Thank you.-(cheering, applause)
The January issueof National Geographi magazine
is on newsstands now, and onlineat natgeo.com/genderrevolution.
Susan Goldberg, everybody.