>> Jon: WELCOME BACK!

WE'RE HERE WITH SENATOR KIRSTENGILLIBRAND.

SO I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT,YOU KNOW, THESE INSTITUTIONAL

SITUATIONS THAT CONTINUE.

WE'RE JUST SEEING IT WITH THERAY RICE CASE. SO, THE MAN,

THERE IS A VIDEO OF HIM TAKINGHIS FIANCÉ AND PUTTING HER IN

THE HALLWAY.

THE N.F.L. GETS AHOLD OF THISAND THEY SAY, OK WE'RE GOING TO

SUSPEND HIM FOR TWO GAMES.

AND SO THE WORLD GOES, ARE YOUOUT OF YOUR MIND?

AND IT TAKES TIME.

AND HE SAYS, YOU KNOW WHAT?

I MADE A MISTAKE.

ROGER GOODELL, THE N.F.L.

GOD, TWO GAMES, SHOULD HAVE BEENSIX.

I'M REALLY SORRY.>> YEAH.

>> Jon: AND THEN THIS NEW TAPECOMES OUT IN THE ELEVATOR OF

THE INCIDENT AND EVERYBODY SAYS,THAT'S IT, NO, GET RID OF HIM.

WHAT DID THEY THINK HAPPENED INTHE ELEVATOR? WHY DID THEY NEED

TO SEE A VIDEO?

>> HE ADMITTED TO BEATINGHER. YEAH.

>> Jon: RIGHT. BUT WHY DID THEYNEED TO SEE A VIDEO TAPE? WHAT

DID THEY THINK HE DID? DID THEYTHINK HE WENT, AND SHE FELL?

YOU KNOW, WHY IS IT THEINSTITUTIONS SET UP STILL THAT

WOMEN HAVE TO CLEAR A BAR OF-- AND EVEN IN THIS, YOU

SAY, WELL, SHE MUST HAVE DONESOMETHING OR THIS AND THAT.

>> RIGHT.

>> Jon: THEY STILL HAVE TOFIGHT THROUGH THESE OBSTACLES AT

EVERY TURN.

WHY IS THAT STILL THE CASE?

>> WELL, THERE'S TWO ISSUES.ONE, THE INSTITUTIONAL SPORT.

THE N.F.L., YOU KNOW, PROTECTSTHEIR STAR SO THIS GUY SHOULD

HAVE BEEN FIRED AS SOON AS HESAID I BEAT MY WIFE AND THAT'S

THE VIDEO OF ME DRAGGING HEROUT OF THE ELEVATOR.

THERE WAS NO QUESTION LEFT TO BEANSWERED.

THE FACTS WERE THERE. BUT YOUSEE THIS IN THE MILITARY

CONTEXT, YOU SEE IT IN COLLEGECAMPUSES, THIS CONSTANT

PROTECTION OF THE STAR, OF THEFAVORITE SON, OF WHATEVER THE

ISSUE IS, AND THE DISBELIEFOF THE WOMEN AND THEN

THE VICTIM BLAMING. THE WELL,IT WAS WHAT SHE WAS WEARING

OR OBVIOUSLY SHE CAUSED THEPROBLEM, OR SHE WAS THE ONE...

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> THE CONSTANT VICTIMBLAMING AND THE UNDERMINING.

AND WHAT IT'S REALLY ABOUT IN MYOPINION IS HOW DO WE VALUE WOMEN

IN SOCIETY? AND THERE'STHIS DEVALUATION AND

IT'S ACROSS EVERYBARRIER, IT'S WHETHER WE'RE

TALKING ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULTAND NOT BELIEVING THE SURVIVOR.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> OR WHETHER WE'RE TALKINGABOUT EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK.

IT IS, THERE IS THIS DEVALUATIONOF WOMEN AND --

>> Jon: BUT WHY STILL? HOW CANTHAT -- AS FAR AS -- HERE'S WHAT

BLOWS MY MIND. SO,THERE ARE TWO THINGS.

I READ ABOUT THIS CASE, ITMIGHT HAVE BEEN IN COLUMBIA

OR ONE OF THESE PLACES, ANDTHEY WERE TALKING ABOUT ON

THE NEWS, WELL, YOU KNOW, THISREALLY SPEAKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW,

WOMEN HAVE TO BE CAREFUL AND NOTDRINK AT THESE PARTIES SO THAT

THEY DON'T MAKE THEMSELVESVULNERABLE TO THESE TYPE OF

SEXUAL ASSAULTS, BUT NOBODYSAYS, HEY, MAYBE MEN SHOULD

NOT DRINK BECAUSE THATMIGHT MAKE THEM --

>> YEAH.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) >> Jon: IT'S MIND BOGGLING.

IT'S ALL ABOUT WOMEN MUST DRESSDIFFERENTLY, WOMEN MUST WALK

DIFFERENTLY, WOMEN MUST DRINKDIFFERENTLY.

WHY ARE WE NOT ABLE TO HOLD MENTO ACCOUNT FOR THIS BEHAVIOR?

WHY? IT'S THIS IDEA OF, HEY!

DUDE'S ARE DUDES!

>> I THINK IT'S THE DECISIONMAKERS.

AND SO, THE N.F.L. CLEARLY GOTTHIS WRONG.

IN THE MILITARY, THE COMMANDERSWANT TO STAY IN CHARGE, EVEN

THOUGH THERE WERE 26,000 RAPES,SEXUAL ASSAULTS, AND UNWANTED

SEXUAL CONTACT LAST YEAR ALONE.>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> AND ONLY 3,000 REPORTED. ANDALL THE SURVIVORS OVER AND OVER

AND OVER, THEY KEEP SAYINGWE DON'T TRUST THE CHAIN

OF COMMAND AND DON'T BELIEVEJUSTICE IS POSSIBLE.

BUT THEY DON'T LISTEN TO THESURVIVORS.

THEY'RE GIVEN NO CREDIBILITYABOUT HOW TO FIX THE SYSTEM.

ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES YOU SEE THESAME THING, VICTIM BLAMING, NO

JUSTICE, YOU KNOW, NOT DEALINGWITH THESE CASES APPROPRIATELY.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> SO, WOMEN'S VOICES NEED TO BEHEARD. AND THAT'S WHAT THIS BOOK

IS ABOUT. IT'S ABOUT THE NEEDFOR WOMEN TO BE HEARD ON ALL

ISSUES THAT AFFECT THEM ANDTHAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THEM

BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT.

>> Jon: AND EVEN WITHIN THIS --SO YOU'RE ON THE FLOOR OF THE

SENATE.

YOU ARE A UNITED STATES SITTINGSENATOR AND YOU DETAIL OTHER

PEOPLE, ELECTED REPRESENTATIVESSAYING THINGS TO YOU THAT ARE

UTTERLY REPREHENSIBLE AND INSANEABOUT THE WAY YOU LOOK, ABOUT

THE WEIGHT, ABOUT THESE THINGS.

HOW DO YOU NOT JUST TURN TO THEC-SPAN CAMERA AND GO [BLEEPED]

THESE GUYS? LIKE, WHAT?

HOW DOES THAT NOT HAPPEN?

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)I DON'T UNDERSTAND. HOW DO YOU

PUT UP WITH THAT, HOW DO YOU PUTUP WITH THAT WITH SUCH GRACE?

>> WELL, I'M IN A STAGE IN MYCAREER WHERE I CAN REALLY JUST,

YOU KNOW, JUST IGNORE IT.

FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN A SOUTHERNCONGRESSMAN EQUATES ME BEING

EIGHT MONTHS PREGNANT WITH BIGFAT, YOU'RE EVEN PRETTY WHEN

YOU'RE FAT. YOU KNOW, THAT'SOUTRAGEOUS. IT'S ABUSURD, BUT

I LOOK AT HIM LIKE YOU MUST BEFROM ANOTHER PLANET, BECAUSE IT

IS NOT APPROPRIATE.

IT IS SO FAR OUTSIDE WHAT SHOULDBE SAID.

BUT I'M REALLY HAD A TOUGHERTIME WITH THIS KIND OF THING

WHEN I WAS YOUNG.>> Jon: SURE.

>> BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE THETOOLS.

>> Jon: AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE THEPOWER.

>> I DIDN'T HAVE THE TOOLS ORTHE POWER.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> AND SO, I TALK ABOUT THESTORY WHEN I'M A YOUNG LAWYER.

AND THE REASON WHY I WRITETHESE, I GIVE THESE

EXAMPLES AS ILLUSTRATIONSFOR THE BROADER ISSUE, AND TO

ELEVATE THE DEBATES, TO TALKABOUT HOW WOMEN ARE TREATED IN

THE WORKPLACE ACROSS THE BOARD.>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> BUT FOR A YOUNGER WOMAN, ANDIT'S HER FIRST JOB, AND HER BOSS

COMMENTS ON HER LIKE I WASCOMMENTED ON LIKE OH GOSH,

KIRSTEN YOU REALLY LOOK GOODTODAY, AS OPPOSED TO

THANK YOU FOR WORKING SO HARD.THAT UNDERMINED ME SO MUCH.

>> Jon: RIGHT.>> IT DEFLATED ME,

IT MADE ME FEEL LESS VALUABLE,AND I WANT A YOUNG WOMAN

READING THIS BOOK TO PUSHTHROUGH AND JUST SAY, SOME DAY

I'M GOING TO BE THAT GUY'S BOSS,AND I'M GONNA CHANGE THE

CLIMATE AND I'M GOING TO MAKETHIS A BETTER PLACE TO WORK.

>> Jon: RIGHT, RIGHT. WELL, ITHINK IT'S EXCELLENT.

STICK AROUND FOR A LITTLE BITBECAUSE WE'RE STILL GOING TO

TALK ABOUT THE THING. CANYOU STICK AROUND?

>> YEAH, YEAH.

>> Jon: CAUSE I STILL THINK THEMAIN THING THAT HAS TO END IS

MEN'S DEFENSIVENESS. THIS IDEATHAT SOMEHOW THEY'RE ENTITLED

TO A BEHAVIOR AND APRIVILEGE THAT EXISTED.

YOU KNOW, IN THE OLD DAYS, MENCOULD BE MEN AND YOU COULD SAY

THINGS AND GET WOMEN FIRED FORNOT SLEEPING WITH YOU.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOINGON!

(LAUGHTER)"OFF THE SIDELINES." IT'S

ON THE BOOKSHELVES NOW. SENATORKIRSTEN GILLIBRAND.

WE'LL BE BACK. WE'LL TALK ALITTLE BIT.