Please welcome Douglas Brinkley,
everybody. Thank you so muchfor being here, Douglas.
Well, this is interesting.
We can only live in the present,we can project the future,
but you are a manwho specializes in the past.
Is there anythingthat can compare
to what we are seeingand feeling right now?
Nothingin recent historical memory
that is, uh,as shocking as this.
I mean, you have to go backto Truman versus Dewey in 1948,
uh, when, you know, peoplethought for sure Dewey had won.
I'm stunnedall the polls are wrong.
I don't know...Everybody guessed this wrong.
It lookslike Donald Trump's won.
And, um,there's really nothing like it,
um, that we can compare it to.It's a... kind of a takeover.
It was the outsiders beatingthe elites.
Even George W. Bushand George Herbert Walker Bush,
Mitt Romney,Republican establishment
really want nothing to dowith Trump, but he won.
Now, now, if you look at thishistorically, though, you go,
uh, people like Reagansurprised everybody.
But is Reagan a fair comparisonto Donald Trump?
Because, I mean, yes,Trump is an outsider,
and Reagan was considered one,
but Donald Trump is,like, an outsider of humans.
-He's an outsider of everything.-(laughter)
Like, has there been a situationwhere someone came in
who was loathed by Republicans,
and then went onto work with them?
No, Reagan was a conservative,
but he had beengovernor of California.
-Yeah. -Trump's been--no public service.
We're dealing with a very kindof dangerous figure coming in.
I mean, it's hard to imagine him
standing and taking the oathof office.
-Oh, but... -'Cause we knowwhere those hands
-have been when he puts themon the bible. -That's right.
-Yeah. -Well, the good news,though, is
Reagan did win in 1980,
and he won by a landslide,and he was a...
But Reagan was an optimist.
Trump's been very pessimisticabout America.
But Reagan did end up defendingSocial Security and Medicare.
He ended up doing the historicarms reductions
...which the left applauded.
He dissed Roe v. Wade,
but never did anythingto undo it.
The point being,if Trump wins tonight,
which it looks likehe's headed to it,
we're gonna have to hopethere's some silver lining,
that Trump's notquite as radical
and unhinged as we think.
But I think history's gonna showthis is Brexit.
Brexit was the warning sign,
this economic populismin Europe, but this is...
Trump warned us.He said
it was Brexit plus, plus, plus.
Yeah, and that's looking likeit may be tonight.
And I don't know what
the stock market's gonna dotomorrow, what the world mar...
People are shattered right nowall over the globe.
This is a bizarre evening inAmerican presidential history.
When you lookat all the knowledge
you possess from the past...
I mean, you teach, as well,you talk to students.
Have you seen any signthat this would come?
Was there any indication thatmaybe polls were off,
or people weren't telling uswhat they were really gonna do?
That's a great question, Trevor.
I remember in the 1960s,Bob Dylan did a song
called "The Balladof the Thin Man" in 1965.
And Dylan said,"Something is happening
"and you don't know what it is.
Do you, Mr. Jones?"
Mr. Jones was the establishment.
Mr. Jones was Lyndon Johnson andMcNamara and the Rockefellers,
everybody, becausethe counter culture had emerged.
The hard right, the alternativeright's the victor here
if Trump wins becausethey stole the counterculture
-gorilla, you know, warfarepress style... -Yeah.
And they went hard Breitbart.
And that was a radical thingto do, so we're kind...
They've kind of stolenthe tricks of the '60s
and now it's the hard rightmovement of 2016.
So if you're looking at a trendand you're looking at history
and you're looking at wherewe possibly could go from here
if, God forbid,
Donald Trump were to be thepresident of the United States,
does the Republican Party existthe way it has,
or does it now devolve
into an extreme alt rightpolitical party?
I think it's an extremealt right political party.
I think you have to takeDonald Trump on his word.
I mean, you're lookingat a weird scenario
of people like, uh,you know, Sean Hannity
could be chief of staffin The White House.
You could have Rudy Giulianibeing attorney general.
You could have Newt Gingrichbeing, uh, bec...
Newt Gingrich beingsecretary of state.
I say that because you're goingto have a Republican senate
and a Republican congress.
The main thing is, to... for...to be heartening,
like 2000when Bush won by just an iota.
-Really didn't even really win.-Yeah.
It wentto the Supreme Court 5-4.
But this is a tight election.
This is not wave.This is not a landslide.
Donald Trump did not...
If he wins tonight,this is not a landslide.
It's still pretty neck to neck.
They're fighting over Michigan.
The really story tonight,I think,
is how Trump tookthe Barry Goldwater right,
morphed it with segregationistracist George Wallace views...
-Uh-huh. -...but grabbedRoss Perot's anti-NAFTA.
Perot won 19% in 1992,against NAFTA.
And you're seeingthis play out--
this anti-NAFTA sentiment
that Trump's been able to run inOhio, in Michigan and Wisconsin.
It is a scary story to tell,
and, uh, I guess,we are now part of history.
-Thank you so much.-Thank you, Trevor.
Thank you for being here.Douglas Brinkley, everybody.